During Graham's appearance on the JRE podcast he debates with Michael Shermer who challenges his notion on the transfer of technology from a lost civilization to the hunter gathers at the Göbeklitepe monolith.
He asks Graham and I'm summarizing in my own words “where is the technology then where is the metal work, where is the tools and Graham suggests they could be hidden still or not all the technology was transferred or maybe they did not even use metal. Again, summarizing for the sake of expediting the post.
Michael Shermer seems to be implying that Graham’s notion that this advanced society wasn’t advanced and just smart and capable hunter gatherers and there’s no evidence of this advanced society other Göbeklitepe itself. I.E. No metal work, no tools and art, that we associate with advanced cultures.
I’m proposing a reason for why metal work does not exist at that time, building off Graham’s theory. Maybe it has been said before or I missed it somewhere else, but I had this thought and thought it was a interesting one.
Here goes, and this theory is more an expletory thought process then an actual theory.
Assume you are from a “advanced civilization” and you and a small number of your family and others from your culture just were decimated by a catastrophic event. Such as flooding/cosmic impacts.
As Graham suggests us who are “advanced” are less suited for the everyday survival like hunter gatherers are and he uses himself as an example he would seek out hunter gatherers and settle with them. And hopefully transfer some knowledge to them.
Now knowing what we know about humans and political circles you would have to wonder what was going through those people’s minds.
I think the reason some things may have been transferred such as agriculture that we know happened and building and others were not such as metal working were because it was the “ace in the sleeve.”
I think the advanced escaping the decimated civilizations people did have at the minimum copper tools. Bronze and Iron are a possibility but unlikely. They would have only been able to transport a small amount of them with them to reach the hunter gatherers. If I was in their shoes. I would take only the most important things with me such as something for hunting or defending myself. I think they had great weapons in comparison to the hunter gatherers they settled with.
Think of trying to fit in to a new culture. Learn their language. Gain their trust. Get them to listen to you and respect you. Convince the leaders of the hunter gathers to accept you as a leader or at the very least a mentor. To not kill you and take your things.
We saw this in our history that we know of. When the Spanish arrived in the America’s we saw this. The shiny strong Conquistadors were almost seen as gods and not without conflict took power.
A similar situation would happen but now imagine if there was no homeland In Spain (as in this scenario it is destroyed by some sort of cataclysm.) constantly resupplying those same Conquistadors and they knew they had no home to return to.
The Conquistadors would constantly be paranoid of the natives trying to take their stuff, kill them, or thwart their progress and retake the power.
This civilization they came to have no agriculture that we know of until after. So, they would want to teach them that, to ensure stability for the future. They would also have to ensure some sort of security to protect themselves being few in comparison to the natives.
I believe these securities were withholding information. You would very much NOT want the locals to learn how to make the weapons you possess and use them against you. I think that is the reason why metal weapons and other advanced tools may have not been found at Göbeklitepe other than the obvious they have not dug out the entire site to look.
The other security was to distract and enthrall the natives. Perhaps they were looked to as gods. They taught them how to build and to create these megalithic structures to practice this new religion in and probably acted as the home of the small number of advanced peoples. Not only would building this structure take a lot of time and energy that would distract and keep busy the population it would help to enthrall and cement the advanced people’s legacy as the figureheads/leaders/gods of this new society they are trying to rebuild.
I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts on this
He asks Graham and I'm summarizing in my own words “where is the technology then where is the metal work, where is the tools and Graham suggests they could be hidden still or not all the technology was transferred or maybe they did not even use metal. Again, summarizing for the sake of expediting the post.
Michael Shermer seems to be implying that Graham’s notion that this advanced society wasn’t advanced and just smart and capable hunter gatherers and there’s no evidence of this advanced society other Göbeklitepe itself. I.E. No metal work, no tools and art, that we associate with advanced cultures.
I’m proposing a reason for why metal work does not exist at that time, building off Graham’s theory. Maybe it has been said before or I missed it somewhere else, but I had this thought and thought it was a interesting one.
Here goes, and this theory is more an expletory thought process then an actual theory.
Assume you are from a “advanced civilization” and you and a small number of your family and others from your culture just were decimated by a catastrophic event. Such as flooding/cosmic impacts.
As Graham suggests us who are “advanced” are less suited for the everyday survival like hunter gatherers are and he uses himself as an example he would seek out hunter gatherers and settle with them. And hopefully transfer some knowledge to them.
Now knowing what we know about humans and political circles you would have to wonder what was going through those people’s minds.
I think the reason some things may have been transferred such as agriculture that we know happened and building and others were not such as metal working were because it was the “ace in the sleeve.”
I think the advanced escaping the decimated civilizations people did have at the minimum copper tools. Bronze and Iron are a possibility but unlikely. They would have only been able to transport a small amount of them with them to reach the hunter gatherers. If I was in their shoes. I would take only the most important things with me such as something for hunting or defending myself. I think they had great weapons in comparison to the hunter gatherers they settled with.
Think of trying to fit in to a new culture. Learn their language. Gain their trust. Get them to listen to you and respect you. Convince the leaders of the hunter gathers to accept you as a leader or at the very least a mentor. To not kill you and take your things.
We saw this in our history that we know of. When the Spanish arrived in the America’s we saw this. The shiny strong Conquistadors were almost seen as gods and not without conflict took power.
A similar situation would happen but now imagine if there was no homeland In Spain (as in this scenario it is destroyed by some sort of cataclysm.) constantly resupplying those same Conquistadors and they knew they had no home to return to.
The Conquistadors would constantly be paranoid of the natives trying to take their stuff, kill them, or thwart their progress and retake the power.
This civilization they came to have no agriculture that we know of until after. So, they would want to teach them that, to ensure stability for the future. They would also have to ensure some sort of security to protect themselves being few in comparison to the natives.
I believe these securities were withholding information. You would very much NOT want the locals to learn how to make the weapons you possess and use them against you. I think that is the reason why metal weapons and other advanced tools may have not been found at Göbeklitepe other than the obvious they have not dug out the entire site to look.
The other security was to distract and enthrall the natives. Perhaps they were looked to as gods. They taught them how to build and to create these megalithic structures to practice this new religion in and probably acted as the home of the small number of advanced peoples. Not only would building this structure take a lot of time and energy that would distract and keep busy the population it would help to enthrall and cement the advanced people’s legacy as the figureheads/leaders/gods of this new society they are trying to rebuild.
I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts on this